The importance of creating a system tailored to local needs --Ayu Yamaguchi 【Baridi Baridi employee interview vol.1】

This time, we interviewed Ayu Yamaguchi who is mainly in charge of accounting and finance for both Japan and Tanzania in Baridi Baridi.

Baridi Baridi members appearing in this interview

Ayu Yamaguchi
Experienced in charge of management and financial support, international taxation and support for overseas expansion for SMEs with overseas subsidiaries at a tax accountant corporation. Experienced in accounting and finance operations in Tanzania and Japan at WASSHA Inc, a startup with a branch in Tanzania and a shareholder of Baridi Baridi since 2018. Joined Baridi Baridi from February 2021 after returning to Japan and changing jobs. Director of Global Corporate Planning from September 2021. SME consultant.

Shuto Sakai (Interviewer/Editor)
Born in Mie Prefecture, Japan. Currently a graduate student at Kobe University. Joined Baridi Baridi as an intern in October 2020. Working as an intern at Baridi Baridi Tanzania from August 2021.

Once I know what the person is good at, I give them work at a larger unit

ーーToday, I would like to ask you a wide range of questions about your career and work at Baridi Baridi. Thank you for taking time to meet!!

Ayu: Thank you for having me.

ーーFirst, I would like to ask what kind of work Ayu san does at Baridi Baridi.

Ayu: In my case, my work is constantly changing , so I am working to do what I can do to contribute the most to the company accordingly. Specifically, I originally joined Baridi Baridi to be in charge of accounting and finance on　the Tanzanian side. After that, I mainly worked on accounting and finance in Japan and HR and corporate operations in Tanzania. Once operations were in full-scale, I was in charge of supervising customer service from its establishment, and this week I also took over the sales department, ultimately seeing both the corporate and sales sides of Tanzania.

ーーI see. I think it's a lot of work just by hearing it. You're busy, aren't you?

Ayu: (Laughs) Yes.
But the accountants, HR, and customer success team members, including the Tanzanian leaders, are excellent, and although I am in charge of a large number of departments, I feel that things are going smoothly.

ーーIt is true that Ayu san is in charge of many departments, but I feel that you are able to organize Tanzanian members well in each department. You used to work for WASSHA (a startup company with a branch office in Tanzania), and I would like to know if you have any tips on how to communicate with Tanzanian members and how to delegate tasks.

Ayu: Not so much. I wonder... (laughs). In terms of work, when I boldly entrusted the members with tasks, they did more than I had imagined, and I began to understand that they were good at these areas. Therefore, I try to delegate in large units such as project-based rather than task-based. I feel that both the members and I have accumulated a lot of successes as I have been assigning tasks in such a way.

ーーI see. From my point of view, Ayu san is very good at building trusting relationships with Tanzanian members. I feel that Ayu san is like a mother for us, and that you deals with each of us individually.

Ayu: Right. I really think about what kind of work the members like to do and what kind of work they are best suited for. It's important for both of us. That's why I try to create opportunities for one-on-one conversations, and ask each person to do what they are best suited for. In that sense (like a mother), when the number of employees increased rapidly, I felt like I had many children. But lately (with more than 50 employees), I feel like I've got grandchildren and great-grandchildren (laughs).

ーーI see. So you've gotten used to leaving the work to member. Ayu san is also in charge of hiring. Have you gotten used to hiring Tanzanian members? Is there anything that you are conscious of when hiring?

Ayu: I feel like I've gotten used to it, or rather, I feel like I can now easily tell when someone comes in for an interview that he or she will not be a good fit for Baridi Baridi.

ーーYou know this because you have already interviewed dozens of people.

Ayu: Counting from my WASSHA days, I have interviewed hundreds of people (laughs). It's a very basic thing, but I want to know if the person is looking me in the eye and talking to me properly. Basically, after a quick look at the CV, I try to keep my eyes on the person. Then, I look to see if they can give me a theoretical answer without being intimidated.

ーーI see.

Ayu: It's easy to see when it's clearly not a good fit, but there are two main types of people: those who speak earnestly and calmly (in response to questions) but seem to be passive, and those who speak very actively but it is difficult to judge whether they have any substance. I try to look carefully to see if the earnest person is proactive and if the active person is not just talking.

ーーOh, I see. When I first came to the Tanzanian office and worked with the Tanzanian members, of course everyone was bright, but I got the impression that they were not only bright but also earnest.

Ayu: That's right. I feel that their temperament is relatively close to the Japanese. There are many people who are a little shy and can be careful about what they say behind their words.

ーーI agree. Their ability to be considerate is something that Japanese people can share with. So many members are humble. Do you think that Tanzanian members with such a mindset will inevitably grow?

Ayu: I think there is one more step beyond that, and the two patterns will separate into those who can create work on their own and those who basically take the stance of doing the tasks they are told to do.

ーーI see. As a result of the education, the members grow.

Ayu: Some members are able to understand how to work on their own and realize what to do next. In fact, compared to when some members joined the company, their perspectives have become much higher, which I find very encouraging.

However, I don't really feel that bosses need to educate and develop their members, and I especially don't like the phrase "developing others" because it seems overly dramatic or arrogant. Of course, there is a hierarchical relationship, but I think that is just a difference in roles within a company, and not a difference in “educator / educated.”

Of course, we communicate our expectations to the members, but in the end, the members who have grown are the result of their own efforts to realize their roles and what they are lacking. That's why it makes me happy to see how our members have grown. It is also important to grow, but basically, I want people to enjoy working first.

Tanzanians have "strong ability in enjoying things"

ーーWhen it comes to enjoying working, from my point of view, I have the impression that Ayu san yourself smiles a lot at Tanzanian members even though you are busy, and I feel that you enjoy working. Do you find easiness in working or good fit in working in Tanzania and to work with Tanzanians?

Ayu: After working at WASSHA for two years, I spent a little time in Japan, and now that I'm back in Tanzania, I feel that Tanzanians are very open-minded. I feel that people who work happily don't quit their jobs, while people who don't work happily quit their jobs rather quickly. That kind of openness is easy to understand and easy to work with.

ーーWhat else did you learn in Tanzania?

Ayu: I am speaking from my own experience, but I feel that in Japan, many people view work as something that must be done. I think that many Tanzanians see work as a part of their life, and it seems to be fun. I would like to have that same feeling.

ーーWhy is that?

Ayu: I don’t know why. But they become friends very quickly. On the second day after joining the company, they were already talking like they're old friends (laughs).

ーーIndeed, I think everyone all fit in very quickly. Of course, the Tanzanian members understand the hierarchical relationship between each other, and I think it is wonderful that they are able to relate to each other in a flat manner.

Ayu: I think so too. Everyone has a strong ability to have fun, I think it's a great place to work.

"For the first time, I think I may have decided on a new job based on something other than a spur of the moment idea (laughs)”

ーーNext, I would like to explore a little more about Ayu san yourself.
For some reason, Ayu san's report card was made available to the entire company on Slack (internal communication tool). I also saw your grades in junior high and high school, which were excellent (laughs).

Ayu: You've been watching (laughs).

ーーWhat I'd like to ask you about is what happened after that. In a previous interview, you mentioned that you dropped out of college and became a NEET to work as a bartender. I'm really interested in the gap or the story behind it.

Ayu: That's right (laughs). To put it in a cool way, I got bored, or rather, boring. I think I was thinking that it would be fun to try a completely different life once and see what happens from there (laughs).

ーーI see. You made the decision easily.

Ayu: Yes. At that time, I was studying science in college, but I thought I was not suited for research that delved deeply into one thing. So, I thought it would be a waste of money to stay here, and I dropped out (of college) quite easily.

ーーYou dropped out of college easily (laughs).

Ayu: Yes (laughs). However, I wish I had graduated from college, so if someone was trying to do the same thing, I would do my best to stop them (laughs). I wanted to get involved with people I had never met before, so I started bartending in Kinshicho, where I was living at the time. (Ryogoku is close by.) It was interesting to meet all kinds of people at the bar, including sumo wrestlers and people from the nightlife.

ーーIndeed, the appeal of bars is that you can get to know a lot of people.

Ayu: Yes. I still go to bars in Dar es Salaam and drink with many people I meet there. However, when I was working as a bartender, I often slept during the day because of my job. After a long period of not being exposed to the sun, I started to feel sick.

I thought about what kind of work I could do that would get me up at daytime. I had done some simple bookkeeping when I was working as a bartender, so I thought it would be a good idea to join an accounting firm, so I started studying bookkeeping. At that time, no one would hire me, so I worked as a contract employee at the National Museum of Emerging Science and Innovation for a while. That’s when I obtained the first grade of the Official Business Skills Test in Bookkeeping, and joined Meinan Consulting Network, a certified tax accountant corporation. I first joined the company as a general office worker and then I was allowed to switch to a regular full-time position when I became a SME consultant, and I worked in the International Division, providing management, accounting and tax advice to small and medium-sized companies.

ーーI see. You chose WASSHA as your next career, which is a unique change of career from a certified tax accountant firm. What was your motivation?

Ayu: Originally, I had a vague interest in working overseas. I chose Meinan Consulting Network partly because of its many overseas office partners. After I became a career-track employee, I had always expressed my wish to go abroad, but there were not many people who could go as they wished. I was about 30 years old at the time, so I thought that if I didn't go abroad now, I would never go. Since I was going broad, I thought I would go to a whole different place. At that time, WASSHA posted a job opening with the catchphrase, "You can work in Africa in short sleeves and shorts.” I thought, "This is it!”

ーーDid you have any resistance to the idea of going to Africa?

Ayu: I think I have a high tolerance for places to live. When I was living on a shoestring, I had experienced electricity bills being shut down because I couldn't pay them, and I had also lived in a manga cafe for about a month, so I wasn't worried as long as I didn't die. On the other hand, I'm still not good at languages, but at the time I was just worried.

ーーI see. After leaving WASSHA, what made you decide to join Baridi Baridi and come back to Tanzania?

Ayu: Yes, I got sick when I was at WASSHA. Since I was in the middle of preparing for IPO, I felt bad about missing work so often, so I resigned. After that, I returned to Japan and changed jobs.

ーーWhy is that?

Ayu: At the time, I was looking for a new job through an agent, and when I was accepted by a large Japanese company, the agent was very happy. The person said, "I'm sorry to say this, but this is absolutely not possible for a high school graduate. It's a miracle!” Something like that (laughs). I thought that if there were people in the world who would be so happy for me like that, I thought I might as well make this choice.

I think I also wanted to see how much of my experience I could apply in a so-called large company. However, when I actually joined the company, I soon realized that the job was not a good fit for me. Even if the scale of the business itself is small, I think it suits my temperament to be able to work flexibly and change my role while keeping an eye on the big picture. So, I was looking for another place to work at a relatively early stage. At that time, I had a chance to have a casual conversation with Hiroki san (CEO).

I didn't take it seriously at first because I had offers from other companies, but after thinking about it, I thought it might be quite interesting. I was able to create a 0→1 operation in Tanzania, I knew all the members and felt safe, I had experience in a startup (WASSHA) and a little experience in a large company, and overall, I decided to join Baridi Baridi where I could make the most of my experience. For the first time, I think I may have decided on a new job based on something other than a spur of the moment idea (laughs).

Creating system is to be based on being born evil by nature, management is to be based on good

ーーEarlier, you mentioned working with the big picture in mind, When I look at you, I see that not only are you able to draw the big picture, but you are also very good at managing the day-to-day operations to the level of execution. Is there anything that you value or are conscious of?

Ayu: Yes. It may sound like a motto, but I am conscious of the fact that “creating system is to be based on being born evil by nature, management is to be based on good."

For example, I know that some companies make it the employee's responsibility to apply for expenses up to a certain amount, but I don't think this fits Baridi Baridi's current situation.

 If we miss even just one cheating, we become a company that allows cheating. People who do not cheat should not be at a disadvantage over those who do. So even if the process becomes a bit tedious, we have created a system where cheating is never allowed and nothing bad can happen. However, after creating a system where this is the minimum line, we try to give work to members who raise their hands without limit.

ーーI see. When did you first realize the importance of creating a system?

Ayu: I think it was after I joined WASSHA. When I was at a tax consulting firm, I could only judge the results (numbers) that came in. Of course, we can formulate strategies based on numbers, but it is the president or employees who actually create the business in the field.

If you've ever been in the consulting business, you know that you want to run your own business at least once. When I joined WASSHA, I realized the importance of creating a system in business. In the end, if it is not reproducible, it will just be a bunch of people. I think it would be ideal for a company to increase sales and profits within a system that is reproducible.

ーーSo that's how Baridi Baridi introduced Zoho under your leadership.

Ayu: Yes. When I was at WASSHA, there was a part of me that couldn't decide if software like Zoho (a cloud-based customer management system) was worth the investment. But when I came to Baridi Baridi, I was able to visualize what systems should look like, and as a result, I can say with confidence that it is worth the investment.

I want to be doing interesting work that I never would have thought of three or five years ago

ーーFinally, Baridi Baridi is aiming to install 1,600 units of AC in the second half of the fiscal year starting this October, but Ayu san, please tell us about your enthusiasm for the future!

Ayu: Last week, I was assigned to be in charge of sales, so I think I need to make sure I achieve my goals of installing 1,600 units and achieving a 65% utilization rate. This is my first challenge, and although it is a high goal, I am determined to do it now that I have been assigned to it. However, this cannot be achieved only by front-line teams such as sales, customer success, and service. The key is how to operate efficiently by utilizing numbers and data, including the corporate team, and how to hire talented people. So, I believe that we all need to look in the same direction to achieve this goal.

ーーSo, Ayu san, do you have any goals for the next five or ten years?

Ayu: I'm not thinking too far ahead. I think it would be good if I could be where I am needed at the time, whether it is a place or a position. If there is one thing I hope to do, I want to be doing interesting work that I never would have thought of three or five years ago.

ーーThank you very much for your time. Do you have any words for the Tanzanian team members?

Ayu: If there's something you want to do, show us! We look forward to working with you proactively.

The Baridi Baridi Times will be posting interviews with Baridi Baridi employees on note.
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